Gasland

[hobkyl]

I know several here will immediately dismiss this as industry lies without giving it a chance. However, as someone who knows he doesn't know all the pros and cons of this controversy, I feel it important to share this to represent the other side of the story.


Truthland, the industry's response to Gasland...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJaaeiuzSU

[Brenda]

Some energy companies give up on fracking in New York
Rules, lack of progress cause many to give up on fracking
8:12 PM, Dec 2, 2012
Written by
Andrew Casler

ITHACA — As energy companies show diminished interest in high-volume hydraulic fracturing in New York, the Tompkins County Courthouse is being flooded with paperwork showing a rapid increase in expiring gas leases.

At the root of this trend are the state Department of EnvironmentalConservation’s four-year drilling moratorium and the threat of potentially tough regulations, according to Jim Smith, spokesman for the Independent Oil and Gas Association of New York. Smith’s organization offers public-relations work for oil and gas companies.

“If you go to a meeting where there’s a majority of our members, they will tell you that the opportunities are not here in New York right now,” Smith said. “They will tell you that the opportunities are in Pennsylvania and Ohio, and not New York, and that’s not a knock, that’s just a fact.”

After launching an environmental review of hydrofracking in 2008, the DEC had faced a deadline of last Thursday for finalizing proposed regulations. But late Wednesday, the department filed for a 90-day extension, which requires a “substantially revised” set of proposals and a further 30 days of public comment.

In recent years, more than 30 municipalities in upstate New York have passed bans on gas drilling, and more than 80 have enacted moratoriums, the Associated Press reported in July.

Thomas West, an attorney for Anschutz Exploration Corp., said the company is, by and large, cutting its losses in New York.

Read more here: http://www.theithacajournal.com/article ... ck_check=1

[hobkyl]

MV5BMTQxNDYzNzgyOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTU0NTI1OA@@._V1._SY317_CR0,0,214,317_.jpg (14.65 KiB) Viewed 2369 times

http://youtu.be/AHQt1NAkhIo

[Des219]

I do not know any of you personally and realize this is an old topic, however I thought I might stir the fire a bit...

I personally have not determined if fracking is safe or not, but I do think we should look at the facts.

1) Like Kyle said we all are using electric and fossil fuels in someway so we can't instantly rule out a new source of energy.
2) Both sides have something to gain fiscally in the debate of safe or not. We all know the gas companies and everyone involved are making money, but so are everyone involved with Gasland and all of the media against the fracking.
3) Have any of you that are so against fracking actually visited a fracking location? Our family cabin is in northern PA in a fracking zone. No we have not allowed fracking and are not planning on allowing fracking on our property, however I have not personally experienced any negative affects in the area. Not saying that there are zero instances of problems, but what energy source does not have accidents other than solar power and how many of us are exclusively using solar?
4) I personally know of a family in the fracking area that their water is polluted with natural gas. The catch is, it was that way before fracking was even possible. So how many of these families that are contaminated are actually from fracking and how many of them are just trying to profit off of an easy escape goat? Remember the areas that they are in are rich in natural gas, hence the fracking.
5) If people are really against fracking then why is it okay for it to be in someone else's backyard?
6) Do I trust fracking? No, and I am not trying to push it, however I am not strongly apposed to it and would not blast someone for supporting it. I believe Kyle is an outdoor enthusiast, and cares about the environment as much as any of us. So until you can answer that you are strictly using solar power, stopped using fossil fuels, do not travel on road ways, know people that live in a fracking zone and were not experiencing problems before fracking and now are, then maybe you can insult Kyle and put yourself on a higher level than him.

I can remember thinking that Bush had something to do with the rise in gas prices, or at least could have helped to lower prices. Then Obama came in to power and gas prices have gone up and down but have stuck around at a high price. My point is you can't always assume that you know and/or are being told the truth on everything. There are always two sides to every story and even a third and fourth at times.

[hobkyl]

Thanks Des.

[Brenda]

Des, I have zero interest in re-hashing this with you or anyone else. The lines on this issue have been pretty clearly drawn for some time now. I will say that fracking is not okay in anyone's backyard. There are people out there, like myself, who are working toward sustainable solutions. It is nice to see that Kyle is developing a fan base, but anyone who truly "cares about the environment" would never support fracking.

[hobkyl]

[Matt]

Just a note on #3 and since I finally did see Gasland, my thoughts:
A lot of Upstate NY has been natural gas drill-welled (although using much less aggressive processes) for decades. Especially western NY. Those wells, many abandoned, have become the burden of taxpayers, as the energy companies plan it that way (I would be more concerned about this anything else). Fracking is nothing new. When I studied fracking in undergrad, it was a feesable practice with little environmental impact, prmarily because no one was willing to spend that much to get natural gas at that price. Times have changed and now it IS a concern because a the demand for a few wells in a town has become a demand for tens of thousands. TENS of THOUSANDS. Mining is especially not new. But thew aggressiveness and lawlessness at which fracking is occurring around the USA, where damages are being quickly covered up with private payments and lawmakers are torn between what the people want and what the companies are paying for.. that's what's ne... no wwait.. that's not new either.

Fact is that People have been drilling wells in Upstate NY for decades, successfully, but with moderation and oversight of that process, because it really is just a few thousand at best. Chances are we have driven past, play within a beach or park, or are within a town, that has been welled for natural gas. Does that make the current process safe, I don't think so. Does unsafe mean don't do it? Not necessarily. Fracking can be done right by design. But as we all know that the rock underneath us is not designed and is certainly not without oddities. Anyone who has walked Watkins Glen can see it takes just one vertical fissure in the rock to blend strata together. How do toxic or questionable chemicals stay contained within a system that by nature is not contained? We aren't talking about granite mountains here. This is linestone and shale. We can break it with out hands. And the region is not immune to seismic activity as we have seen in recent years.

The best resolution is to hold energy companies responsible and to block them from using subsidiaries from limiting their liability. Prevent bankruptcy.

This is how mining works in America.
1: Oil company A wants to frack a town dry.
2: They create a subsidiary, and independent corporation with it's own tax ID and liability: Sub B.
3: They create an agreement that Sub B must provide A with gas and lease equipment. Sub B brings in contract workers, hires some local labor.
4: Sub B agrees to pay leasing with gas accumulated from the wells. Parent A, located out of state, gets all the gas and much of the revenue from its sale.
5: Sub B operates wells. More wells are drilled then sealed and capped. By design, debt is racked up. Some debts are paid in an effort to assure surrounding communities. Lawsuits and wells go unsettled.
6: When the area is nearing dry, by design, dept is at a peak, Parent company A calls to collect debt. Any lawsuits from people/farms/businesses damaged by the mining operation collect as well.
7: Sub B declares bankruptcy. Pays little to nothing.
8: Unsealed wells and contaminated growndwater sites go under federal or state plans, such as brownfield or "Superfund" system, and out of our pocket.

So even if you are pro Fracking and pro mining, if you aren't directly profiting from it with a job or hotel contracted to house out of state workers, you will probably end up paying a bit for it later on. And contaminated aquifers is one of the most expensive cleanup efforts. But the people that are brought in from out of state to work on wells, and the state and county who pulls in sales and property tax will do wonderfully with that money. Good for them. We all know that when our governments make more tax revenue, it ends up in them spending it or saving it responsibly, right? right? If only they were as wise as Parent A when it comes to working the system.